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Andrew Dick:  Hello and welcome to the Health Care Real Estate Advisor podcast. I’m Andrew Dick, an attorney with Hall Render the largest health care-focused law firm in the country. Today, I am in Indianapolis at the Colliers office and I am going to interview Shawn Janus, who is the newly appointed national director of health care at Colliers. Shawn is an industry veteran and we thought it would be interesting to sit down with Shawn to hear his story and his vision for the Colliers health care platform. We’ll also talk about the state of health care real estate and where Shawn sees opportunities in the future. Shawn, thanks for joining me.

Shawn Janus:  Thank you. Andrew. Good to be here.

Andrew Dick: Shawn, before we talk about your current role at Colliers, let’s talk about your background. Tell us where you’re from, where you went to college, and what you aspired to be at a younger age.

Shawn Janus:  What I aspired to be. That’s interesting. So actually I grew up, I’m Chicago bred, born and raised in the Chicago area. I actually grew up in the far southwestern, excuse me, far south suburbs of Chicago, a town called Chicago Heights, very blue-collar. The Ford Stamping Plant was down there through all rail cars. So it was again, very, very blue-collar area that I grew up in, but I loved it down there and it sets the foundation of who I became today. So that’s where I’m originally from.

Andrew Dick: And after you went to college, Shawn, what was your first job? What did you end up doing?

Shawn Janus:  Well, essentially, actually college was a complicated journey for me to some extent. So I played football in college. I think, Andrew, we talked about this a little bit when we last saw each other, but so I was recruited to play college football and I was overwhelmed by the process my parents didn’t go to college. They didn’t really have a perspective. My high school football coach was a first time football coach. Actually, it was a great experience and it was a long way of getting to where I work. Your question is more specifically, but I actually signed my national letter of intent to play at Iowa State. Got enthralled with the big eight and Earle Bruce went on to coach at Ohio State, was the head coach there. Actually broke my letter of intent, never matriculated there and the reason being I continued to be recruited by the Ivy leagues at the time.

Shawn Janus:  So I actually matriculated to Yale for my freshman year. But just found that I didn’t really fit into the Yale culture if you will. Again, being blue collar, some of the values that I had grown up with a little bit different than what was on the East coast. So I ended up transferring to University of Illinois. Absolutely loved it, played football there and I always had an interest in accounting, like the fact that there were answers, specific answers. When you’re young in your career made some sense. So I became an accounting major. I got my CPA coming out of school and that led to my work experience. I actually interviewed for jobs coming out of school and took a job with, which was then, this is my age, Peat Marwick and Mitchell and now KPMG and just so happened that I got thrown on the JMB audit account.

Shawn Janus:  JMB for those who don’t know is one, was one of the largest syndicators in the world at that point in time. So I spent nine months of the year, nine and a half months of the year on the JMB audit, really got to understand real estate and really had an affinity for it. I really enjoyed the business and liked what it did. Interestingly, in the summer months when we weren’t on the JMB account, I happened to get thrown into health care. So it came full circle later in my career. I didn’t actually focus on health care at that point, but started with the DuPage hospital, way back when it said DuPage hospital. So that’s how I got into the business if you will.

Andrew Dick: So fast forward, Shawn, at one point you worked with Todd Lillibridge when he was starting his business and building up his MOB portfolio. Talk a little bit about that.

Shawn Janus:  Yeah, so interestingly, so I was actually in investment banking. At the- around that time with Continental Bank in Chicago and like a lot of big, big investment banks, commercial banks, we have training sessions, et cetera. We’re in this big auditorium theater and the gal giving the presentation announces herself as Lynn Lillibridge. So I went up to her afterward and said, “Wait, any relationship to Todd? Well, I had gone to school with Todd little bridge, we were fraternity brothers.” Turns out that was her husband and she goes, “Oh my God, how do you know Todd?” So Todd actually put me onto his advisory board, you know, during his formative years. This was when he was still a little virgin company I believe. And he was really doing property management consulting. He actually tried to bring me onboard a couple of times. But my background had been really on the deal side of the business, capital markets acquisition and development.

Shawn Janus:  So when, we would get together two, three times a year, they usually come to Chicago, just meet for coffee or breakfast, stayed in touch. And then when he made the strategic decision to hire Lehman brothers when they were still around to begin the roadshow to raise the capital, the first to bring that capital solution to health care institutions. So he again approached me and said, “Hey, you say you love the business, you love real estate, you love health care. I need someone now on the deal side, we don’t have that capability in house.” So I was one of the initial five senior executives who formed and ran the first Lillibridge REIT if you will. So initially I was in charge of acquisition and development and the consulting practice. After a couple of years, we brought someone in who are specifically focused on the consulting side. So that I could focus on acquisition and development because that’s really where the meat of the organization was going.

Andrew Dick: So that had to be a pretty dynamic time to be in health care real estate. Todd’s a pretty dynamic guy, built a very successful business. It sounds like you were along for the ride and were you there when Lillibridge spun out and sold some of its assets to Ventas?

Shawn Janus:  So actually, so I was there through the iteration of the first two REITs, the first REIT, which was Lillibridge Health Trust, actually ends up being sold to CalSTRS. We were- Lillibridge was owned at that point in time by Prudential AEW and JP Morgan Chase along with managements. Those are the four entities we owned. The REIT itself, that was sold to CalSTRS. They wanted to buy the entire entity for tax reasons and other things and then Prudential wanted to stay in the business as did obviously the management folks.

Shawn Janus:  We bought back the management company and the development platform and then we raised capital through Prudential and formed a venture at the property level with Heitman for some of their funds. Yeah, so I was there really through the- and then we formed the second REIT, which was Health Care Lillibridge or a Lillibridge Health Care Real Estate Trust was the name of the second one. So I was there through the first two iterations and then actually got recruited away to join JLL right at the time or right before actually the Ventas transaction. So I was right there at the cusp of when that change occurred.

Andrew Dick: Okay, very interesting. So talk about that transition to JLL, big national firm. What were you doing for JLL?

Shawn Janus:  So JLL had made the … I’ve known that folks going back to those South Partner’s days, which is the predecessor entity to JLL. Jones Lang Wootton and they merged and they had several iterations, but I’d known the LaSalle partners guys having been in commercial real estate in Chicago for ages. Earl Webb, one of the gentlemen there actually is now, he ran capital markets in the Americas for JLL at the time. He is now the CEO of the Americas for Avison Young actually, no one leaves the industry we just move the pieces around a little bit, but I had known Earl for awhile.

Shawn Janus:  We got to talk, I think it was a barbecue if I’m not mistaken. And he had mentioned, they’re looking at, expanding their businesses and they either do it with bringing new products and services to existing clientele or they go into a new industry and they had focused on health care as a industry that which is becoming much more institutionalized, which they’d go- there was a lot of synergy to do that. Their research group internally had come up with some waive papers that made sense for that. So he would bounce things off me then with the, over the course of time in terms of how they should approach the business, what was driving the industry and they ended up getting that approved and to start a health care platform effectively.

Shawn Janus:  They actually hired a guy who came out of a different background. Initially, it didn’t work out and after a short period of time, Earl approached me and said, “Hey, would you be interested? You helped write this business plan if you will anyway,” so that’s when I joined JLL. So I really went there to basically put the entire strategy, the organization together and then to drive a growth platform for JLL across the service industry for health care real estate.

Andrew Dick: Okay. And after JLL you’ve also worked for some other prominent health care real estate firms, specific medical buildings, and then I think is it more recently Catus?

Shawn Janus:  Correct.

Andrew Dick: So talk a little bit about those opportunities and then we’ll jump into what’s going on here at Colliers.

Shawn Janus:  Yeah, so interesting. So my- Pacific Medical buildings, which is based out of San Diego, probably the preeminent health care real estate development company in California and the Western region of the country at that time and still today when we were at Lillibridge and going back, that’s my first interaction with them. One of the things that- I made the decision that we needed to rather than just grow organically on the development side of the business, we were doing, we did when I was there in excess of $1 billion of acquisition transactions through the course of several REITs. But the development side was growing rap- more and more rapidly as it went forward and so growing it organically, it was just tough to keep up with the demand in the industry. So we made the strategic decision to buy a developer, actually hired John Winer, another icon in the industry.

Shawn Janus:  John was with the NY at the time. One of the partners there, they identified, I think it was like 98 distinct entities, development entities across the country and either John, Todd or myself talked to every one of those. My first choice was to buy Pacific Medical buildings. We had approached them. They were maybe smart enough not to move forward with us at the time. We got to know those guys well. Entering the California is always, always tough. There’s a lot of different regulations there as well, but culturally, everything just fit with them. That didn’t work out. We ended up end of the day buying Mediplex Medical Building Corporation, MMBC out of Plano, Texas, outside of Dallas. But long story short, when I was with JLL, one of the things I saw an opportunity was to really bring some solutions into the ambulatory environment, which really was on the development side as well.

Shawn Janus:  So approached Mark Toothacre who is the, still the CEO out at Pacific Medical Buildings. We’ve known each other and stayed in touch all those years and just so happened, timing being everything. They were at a point where they were strategically looking at diversifying geographically and they were struggling with, well we don’t want to take on a bunch of overhead to start offices in other areas of the country. So ended up, we put together a venture of JLL and PMB whereby they had the expertise, the 40-year track record, the pretty pictures, the capital, all those things. JLL had an army of folks I had set up health care offices in most of the major and mid-major cities around the country. So JLL became the intake valve, if you will, from a business development perspective. And then also the execution arm.

Shawn Janus:  So we would get our service fees. We were a service organization, they would get more products, putting it to work and then building their portfolio. So we would do that, we would do the zoning and we would do the project management, we would do the leasing, so all those local type activities. Then they would bring the capital, the oversight and everything else. So that’s how I ended up getting involved with PMB and then eventually ended up joining PMB directly and effectively with the same function. So based in Chicago and was really taking their footprint, trying to expand it from the Rockies to East coast, if you will.

Andrew Dick: Very interesting. So your last stop was at Caddis. Tell us briefly about what you were doing there.

Shawn Janus:  Caddis, is very similar actually. I know Jud Jacobs, who is one of- the development partner at Caddis, he’s an old Trammell Crow guy. I actually worked at Trammell Crow in my commercial days and not that I knew Jud back then, but we’d known each other in the industry for quite some time. Similarly, they were actually looking to expand their platform geographically. They were growing in a much bigger way. They haven’t been around for 40 years. And so it’s a newer firm relative to the industry if you will, was an intriguing opportunity really to do the same thing.

Shawn Janus:  So effectively I was responsible for expanding their platform in the midwest in business development perspective and then for executive leadership for any and all projects in the midwest and that was- there are  acquisitions, there was development, they were involved in the senior housing arena through their hardest platform had not been as involved in the senior side of the business. But it was a great learning curve for me to actually bring that into my quiver in another area, if you will.

Andrew Dick: And how did the opportunity with Colliers present itself?

Shawn Janus:  Yeah, that’s interesting. So as we all do, as we get later in our career, obviously business development and relationships are always important. But particularly, once you’ve been in your career for quite some time. One of the things that I make a point of doing is reaching out to people in the industry and trying to stay in touch with them. A guy by the name of Ted McKenna in Chicago. I’d known Ted for, I don’t know how long, known Ted forever. So we would periodically try to get together just to catch up on what was going on. Just so happened we had arranged to have coffee up in the Northern suburbs of Chicago. We were sitting down and it just so happened that that week it was announced that Mary Beth Kuzmanovich, who was my predecessor here at Colliers, I’ve known Mary Beth for 12 years.

Shawn Janus:  Going back to when she was at Carolina’s Health Care that she had left the Colliers organization and had joined the Lillibridge organization in the small world category, which I’d get into that story. But anyway, we were just talking and catching up. I had mentioned an- what was going on with Mary Beth, and we were talking about the strikes they’ve made over the last four years. And then all of a sudden he stopped and looked at me and said, “Well I know you like your job and what you’re doing, but well you’d be perfect for this, any interest in potentially, thinking about joining the Colliers team?”

Shawn Janus:  So I said, “Well, love to hear more about it. It was right before BOMA. So he actually set up a meeting at BOMA with the internal executives who were running their search process. So that was in the April timeframe. And then over the course of, I guess I started there in September. So over the course of time I’ve got more and more intrigue in the opportunities and with Colliers it was about potential of the health care platform and really the value add that I could bring to the organization and made the decision to join the Colliers team.

Andrew Dick: And so what attracted you to the Colliers platform? When I think of Colliers, I think of an international brokers firm. They have a great health care group I’ve worked with personally over the years and always had good experiences. So what really drew you into the Colliers opportunity?

Shawn Janus:  A couple different things. One, obviously I had, I had built an organization very similar to JLL in terms of starting from scratch, if you will, and kind of building a health care capability. I mean they had some, even at JLL had some capabilities, but really moved that forward in a big way. That has always intrigued me. I really, I love real estate and enjoy the health care component of that. One of other things is I do enjoy the entrepreneurial nature of growing an organization. This was the, Colliers was a bit different in that Mary Beth had been here four plus years, so she had some had done some of the foundational elements in terms of putting their arms around the true health care platform. So those things really intrigued me. But I would tell you the thing that of put it over the top is just the culture of the organization.

Shawn Janus:  That’s very, very important to me has been since I mean going back to my soliloquy about choosing colleges and finding the right fit, if you will. So that’s always been important to me. So as I got to know the folks at the Colliers team across the country and their leadership, their vision, where they were going and just the comfort level in terms of how I could be a part of that team. So it was those things, it was the potential of the platform where they were and where we could take it, the entrepreneurial nature and just that culture.

Andrew Dick: So as the newly appointed national director, what are some of your goals and objectives?

Shawn Janus:  So it’s interesting. At Colliers, it’s set up a little bit differently than we had it at JLL. But, so my role is to really support, give vision, a strategy and drive the growth of the platform. Colliers is regionally based organization. So the health care folks in the organization are based through their regional presidents, if you will. So I look at my job and kind of, I put it in the four buckets, if you will. One of those, as we talked about, is always business development. Having been in the industry for 20 years specifically in health care, I’m talking about, have relationships across the country. So I can not only introduce Colliers into those relationships, ideally at least make those introductions, but can also be involved in pitches to help all those various teams as they try to win business.

Shawn Janus:  The second would be just in recruiting. I think that’s the second bucket. So helping the regions bring in the right type of individuals. Number one, help recruit them, understanding the nuances of the health care environment. They understand the Colliers platform obviously better than I do at this point in time, but identifying those types of candidates as having been in the industry for so long. The third would be just the tools that they use. So arming all those, all the brokers and the property managers and the consultants all across the country on the health care side, do they have the right tools? How can we organizationally support them to be successful, if you will. And then the last would be, and probably one of the most important is branding. In any organization obviously you need to be branded in terms of recognition and how you’re perceived in the industry.

Shawn Janus:  I would give kudos to Mary Beth Kuzmanovich because when I- I didn’t really know much about Colliers Heathcare in the business at a time I’d call it 15 years and I’d never really come across Colliers Health Care at any big way. But when they did make that decision to try to have a leader come forward with that Mary Beth’s leadership, she really did put them on the map a little bit and we began that entire process. But that’s a living, breathing organization- organism, if you will. So that whole branding concept would be my coming forth year.

Andrew Dick: So Shawn, when I think of working with a firm like Colliers, there’s often a couple of different service lines that I think about. There’s the brokerage, there’s the property management, sometimes there’s transaction management and then sometimes there’s investment sales. Are you going to be focusing on all of those within the health care platform or is there one that’s going to take priority over the other?

Shawn Janus:  So the easy answer to that Andrew, is actually we would focus on, we’ll focus on all of those and building all of those out. I think we- my vision is to be the best in classed health care, real estate service provider in the country. Obviously there’s great competition with some of the other larger firms we compete with every day. We’re friendly competitors with them, but I think we have the, the underpinnings and the foundation to be able to do that. Having said that, I mean Colliers is that entrepreneurial nature is, has been historically a broker led organization and much to your point. So I think we will first work through the brokerage side of the business on how can we better grow that piece of the business. But then also the other pieces you mentioned, the strategic consulting.

Shawn Janus:  I think that’s a big piece of what this industry needs and from a real estate perspective we can obviously bring that in a big way. You mentioned property management. I think project management is another area, project program management. So I think being able to bring that solution, like a lot of the big firms, you have the brokerage side of the house and you also have the corporate solutions side of the house. So also just marrying how those two work together. I’ve had experience with that. Obviously JLL had the same two type of platforms. So really looking to bring all those services to the industry.

Andrew Dick: So looking forward, where do you see the health care industry going? We hear a lot about the retailization of health care and the push for ambulatory care. I mean that’s been going on for years. But where do you think the industry is going?

Shawn Janus:  Yeah. I wish that crystal ball was clear. I would tell you. So essentially I always tell people that one of the things that’s intriguing about this industry is that it is constantly changing. And a big piece of that obviously is the fact that it’s so reliant on what the government is doing, through reimbursements, Medicare, Medicaid, all of those payees, if you will, into the health care system drive that. And that changes when we have elections and we’re obviously in that cycle right now. So irrespective of where you are on the political spectrum, it’s going to bring change at some point in time. And when you have that type of change, it creates challenges in the industry. But whenever you have challenges, there’s an opportunity to provide solutions. So I think that really allows an organization who can be nimble, who is strategic in their thinking, truly help their clients look at those things.

Shawn Janus:  You mentioned a couple of things and I think those are, those are probably first and foremost cost and convenience right now are probably two of the larger issues which have been driving health care decisions. The health care revenue model for hospitals and health systems has been under immense pressure. There’s been shifts in the payer mix as we talked about a little bit. Going from the private to the public. We’ve seen that, that affects reimbursements in a big way for hospitals. The case mix shift, that there’s a shift that’s going on there as well, which has implications.

Shawn Janus:  And then to your last point that you mentioned in terms of the convenience and the retailization, that shift of site of care, we’ve gone from this 20 years ago, this inpatient model to a much more diversified outpatient centric and ambulatory centers and whether that be larger MOBs, whether that be urgent care clinics, whether that be freestanding EDs, micro hospitals the buzz word in the industry, which should, depending on which states you’re in there’s quite a bit driving that as well. So, but I think those are two things that are really at this point in time right now we have the election coming up and then you have this issue relative to costs which everyone is dealing with and then the convenience factor which is really being driven by the consumer.

Andrew Dick: Shawn, in the past there was always the discussion about on-campus versus off campus medical office buildings. At one point investors really focused on the on campus assets. A couple of years ago there was a number of investors shifted their focus to looking at the off campus assets and then there’s always a discussion about cap rates spreads between on campus and off campus. What do you think- what’s your opinion, on campus, off campus assets? Where do you see investors going? Talk about some trends. I get that question all the time. I see a lot of activity on both fronts. I still see on campus buildings being constructed, we still are working on a lot of off-campus projects.

Shawn Janus:  Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting. So that … distinguishing between the on campus and the off campus has, as as you mentioned, has been, I would say a point of contention, but the differentiator if you will in terms of distinguishing how investors look at the market. When I first got into the business, it was as you said, just it was really wanted to be on campus. Then it was wanting it near campus and then that wasn’t quite off campus yet. But, it was across the street it would- but it was still around the major hospital. That has changed drastically. I don’t think the drivers of why investors are looking at that- not asset class, but that locational difference why they’re looking at that as a better investment opportunity is the fact that previously in the off campus location was the doc in the box.

Shawn Janus:  It had- it was a true medical office building, 40,000 square foot, two floors, 20,000 square foot floor plates and it really was the doctor’s office, if you will. We still refer to them as medical office building. It’s probably a misnomer. It’s just a general term that’s used now. They really are ambulatory care centers, so the driving factor for investors has been that higher and higher acuity delivery of care is now happening in those locations. It’s ambulatory surgery centers, it’s imaging centers. Now we’re moving into a whole wellness component which is, which is new to our industry, fairly new to our industry as well. So I think some of those factors are really what has driven investors to look at it and say, “What are we really underwriting?” Yeah, it’s real estate, but really underwriting the hospital, the provider, physician group, whatever it might be and what’s the driver for their business? It’s really the procedural side of things and where those occur in the fact that those higher acuities are now at a different location, it just made it easier for them to underwrite that.

Andrew Dick: Where do you see the most opportunities today in the health care real estate industry? I often get that question. I’m curious about, you’ve been in the business for many years. Where are the opportunities and I think you could say opportunities for Colliers or you could say opportunities for really anyone developing health care, real estate assets.

Shawn Janus:  It’s interesting, I answer that question similarly to the question when you asked why did I come to Colliers? The reason I did come here is because I do think there’s so many opportunities in the industry currently. And I think part of that is what I talked about. There’s so much change happening, it’s happening faster, just given technology and what’s going on in the industry and consumers are much more involved in their health care.

Shawn Janus:  So I think given all of that, hospitals and health systems and physician groups, through merger and acquisition activities, everything else that’s occurring, they become overwhelmed to some extent and pretty easily. And one of the things that I think the opportunity is, is to really bring them that trusted advisor. Some people think that’s an overused term, but I actually do believe that. I think if you can bring a specific expertise, again, we’re real estate experts in health care, but for us to be good at what we do, we will need to understand health care, what’s driving their industry, what’s keeping them up at night.

Shawn Janus:  And we always say that real estate will never be on the top issue for hospital or health system executives, but it never used to even be on the top 10 now what’s on the top 10 and it keeps going up and up and up into maybe number five on the list you make. It’ll probably never get higher than that. To use- just got to use an example because something else more relative to the health care. But I think the recognition of the importance of health care and how help app- excuse me, points of real estate and how real estate can from a tactical perspective, help them achieve what they’re trying to do from a mission critical and strategic perspective. So I think those opportunities to really have a seat at the table and really be that trusted advisor and offer that full breadth of services that they might need.

Andrew Dick: Shawn, during your tenure in the industry, what’s the biggest change that you’ve experienced working with health care providers?

Shawn Janus:  That’s a difficult question only because if so many things you could pick and choose from if I guess, just to pick one of those, and we talked about what happened, about elections and the affordable care act. I’m getting my tenure now, so that was a big transformational change in our industry. Even going back to the institutionalization of the class, when I first got into it, it really wasn’t an institutional asset class. It was the angel investors who would look at it and now it’s an accepted, their reach and their billions of dollars in REITs out there, et cetera. The shift to the ambulatory sector and what’s going on there. If I had to say one in that, most people wouldn’t think that would be the main one. But maybe it’s just because the recency of it is really this, this current shift in the delivery of care.

Shawn Janus:  And it’s driven by some of the other things. Obviously we just, that I just mentioned. But it’s really that shift to that ambulatory environment where you went from, as we were talking about early, this on-campus inpatient centric environment to really being responsive to consumers and delivering care in ambulatory settings. And that’s driven obviously in a couple of different ways. The fact, that technology, from the wearables to, how people … you go into your doctor’s office if you’re like me or anyone else. Now if you’re going in that you feel like you’re the expert, you’re- you’ve Googled stuff and you’re going to tell your doctor what you have and so the pressure on physicians and them is much greater as well.

Shawn Janus:  But I think all of those things have really driven the need to provide, not a different care, but a different sensitivity relative to the consumer. And what that is, so that whole ambulatory piece, irrespective if you had to affordable care act and some of these seismic shifts, but I think that is a systemic change to our business. They’ll foundationally be there. The affordable care act will it stay? Will it be repealed? Will it be tweaked? Those things are going to be changed, but I think this particular shift as it relates to controlling costs, convenience of care, that’s going to be a foundational elements it’s going to continue.

Andrew Dick: Shawn, you have a built a great reputation in the industry. There are a lot of young folks getting into the business, whether on the brokerage side, the development side. What advice would you have for someone who’s starting out in the health care real estate business?

Shawn Janus:  Well, I’ll tell you, it’s a great business to be in. Not to be repetitive, but it’s very dynamic. There is constant change in these challenges, creating opportunities. So if you’re someone who wants to provide real value to your clients, to your constituency, it’s a great place to not only learn but to make a career out of … health care is not going away. Whether it’s technology or big data or some of the other things that are now transforming our industry, there’s always going to be something that that creates those opportunities, if you will. The other thing I would tell young people though, and I go back to when I was talking about my recruiting efforts a little bit and then even how I got into into this crazy business is I think it’s really important to pursue your passion.

Shawn Janus:  So if you have a passion for something, I absolutely love real estate. When I got exposed to it and back in my Peat Marwick days and got thrown happenstance into real estate and I really had a love for real estate. The one thing I always thought was missing, and here I’m a south side blue collar Catholic boy growing up wanting to give something back and it always felt like there’s, it sounds trite. I realized that in terms of something else I could bring to the industry.

Shawn Janus:  Then when I had gotten a little bit more involved in health care and start thinking back to that first job when I had some health care experience as well, it was a way to say, “Hey, it’s not just bricks and mortar but we’re bringing a solution that helps people.” So for me that was the passion. It’s marrying the real estate side of things I love to do with the health care side, which more altruistically is in my background. So that’s just me personally. But I think importantly if you can have a passion and health care real estate is a great venue and a foundational place to build a career that can really make something.

Andrew Dick: Shawn, I’ve really enjoyed our conversation and getting to know you over the past few days. Where can our audience learn more about you and the Colliers Health Care platform?

Shawn Janus:  You can obviously go to our website, but I would encourage anyone who would like to learn more just to reach out to me directly, and I’m very approachable and my email is Shawn.Janus@Colliers.com.  Feel free to reach out to me with questions, thoughts, et cetera, and we’d be happy to respond to those.

Andrew Dick: Thanks again, Shawn. Thanks to our audience for listening to the podcast on your Apple or Android device. Please subscribe to the podcast and leave feedback for us. We also publish a newsletter called the Health Care Real Estate Advisor to be added to the list. Please email me at adick@hallrender.com.